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'Widder Paradox Channel

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Re: 'Widder Paradox Channel

Postby topcamp » Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:36 pm

Might make a run up there and shoot a few different arrow/rest combinations and see what an arrow is actually doing from one of these bows.


now that would be a hoot joe..........would love to do that someday.........but then again, i've never used trail cameras because i'm afraid of what i would see that i missing.......ie. the marsh booners that i know live here and nobody ever sees in the daylight......

the teflon rest works very well for me.......i might be better off to leave the why....... a mystery.
the more we know about the " how " and the " why " of..........the less we see and notice about the " now " of the " when "...
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on that day.......you wake up and never more what was .......will ever be again.
_tc on growing old
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Re: 'Widder Paradox Channel

Postby Cutty » Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:29 pm

the same little bit of side resistance to falling off the shelf might also negatively effect the natural tendency of an arrow's paradox around the shelf


That's what I was thinking, Joe, only you said it better. Dang, I hate that! :D
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Re: 'Widder Paradox Channel

Postby Registered Lurker » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:44 am

To take that idea one more step--if one always shot with the bow canted, and keeping the arrow from falling off the shelf was not an issue [don't hunt], wouldn't it be even better to have the shelf slope away from the plate at something more than 90*s ?

And how do you trust glue to stick to tefflon? Kind of like trying to glue snot to vaseline I would think.
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Re: 'Widder Paradox Channel

Postby Yohon » Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:55 am

"Kind of like trying to glue snot to vaseline I would think." :lol: I have watched TC try and glue one of those rest down and thats a fitting description :D
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Re: 'Widder Paradox Channel

Postby topcamp » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:09 am

the same little bit of side resistance to falling off the shelf might also negatively effect the natural tendency of an arrow's paradox around the shelf


without visual proof...........i think the shaft is airborne in free forward thrust paradox and totally clear of that little bit of side resistance......ie. the channel. as near as i can tell......upon release.....contact of the teflon seems to vanish almost completly. the arrow is not riding the channel upon release.

i do shoot with a slight cant, but my original thought process on this was to come up with a shelf super slick, limited arrow contact on the loose that would half ass look trad.........be hunting functional, as in quiet and a solid arrow platform under crunch time......as joe said.....it would be very cool to watch the loose in slowmo.........but at least for now with my shooting style, it is a wicked way of getting an arrow out of the bow.

i played around with several types of glue on the teflon........rl pretty much summed it up......" Kind of like trying to glue snot to vaseline I would think." what i ended up doing as i mentioned.....was gluing a thin leather plate over the natural shelf and side plate of the chastain with barge cement........then i used duro's quick gel super glue.....the original teflon rest in the photo and new pressure strip on the side plate where reglued on two weeks ago as i wanted to move my side plate out a little more for arrow tuning........it took some pressure to remove the teflon from the leather to do this work..........so for i have had no problems with the rest popping off and i do not baby it.......

on working with the teflon.......hank sent me strips of it.........so i carved out the rest while it was still attached to a long strip......i tried doing it with a small piece of teflon but that was, as womble would say "like trying to row a boat with a rope"........you couldn't hang onto it to work with it. leave the teflon rest mothered up to the original bar and just bring it to finish attached.......snip it off when you have it where you want it.........now gluing it down without gluing your self is anothe work of art..........my side plate strip is made simple by just cutting a triangle off of a corner of the teflon and adjusting the taper and distance from the riser side by sight and marking the leather before glue down......since that piece is so small.....i lay the gel down on the leather and then press the teflon side plate on..........
the more we know about the " how " and the " why " of..........the less we see and notice about the " now " of the " when "...
_tc...on the inflation of life

on that day.......you wake up and never more what was .......will ever be again.
_tc on growing old
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Re: 'Widder Paradox Channel

Postby njstykbow » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:31 am

TC,

Don't change anything!

But here is what I have observed...I've watched slow-mo video of Olympic archer's (fingers) arrows coming off their bows. Always a side-to-side paradox in the first movement (while the arrow is still adjacent to the bow). The arrow actually clears the shelf (to the left for a right-hander). Also, when I was first setting up a DAS with an elevated rest and vanes (after the hump had been removed), I found the following: arrow set up with cock feather at 12 o'clock...it was still the 4 o'clock (inner most vane) that was bumping the outside edge of the rest during paradox. This was with an arrow that was bareshafted what I thought was properly.

On several bows I've shot and seen shot from the shelf...there is often times a significant mark on the outside edge of the shelf of the bow, which appears to be the shaft, not the feathers, striking it there hard enough to leave a scuff.

I think there is merit to your comment about the arrow being free and airborn at the time of the shot, I think (opinion only) that it is only airborn to side-to-side movement. If it were free from the downward pressure (gravity if nothing else), wouldn't that arrow be lifting from the shelf at possibly uncontrollable amounts?

Pretty heavy stuff for a Sunday morning...I'm going back to the basement and continue my 300 round for score!

Joe
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Re: 'Widder Paradox Channel

Postby Feral Donkey » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:16 am

If you run your nock up a little, you'll clear a lot of that too. I've always wondered about that kind of stuff like the plastic arm on the Hoyt Superrest and the Bear J-2 how they hold the arrow in with the little upwards finger. My new Cavalier Free-Flyte rest has a little of the same thing with the tip of the flipper is bent up at a about a 30 degree angle, but only raising 1/32".
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Re: 'Widder Paradox Channel

Postby Registered Lurker » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:12 pm

I've seen shaft marks on the outside edge of a shelf also. That's what makes me wonder if it's best to have a wide shelf [Black Swan] to keep the arrow away from the edge--keep it on the same up/down path-- or have a very narrow shelf [Black Widdow] to do away with shelf contact as much as possable.


B.T.W. 3M PTFE Glass cloth tape [#5453] makes a for a very good, low friction, side plate and shelf cover.
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Re: 'Widder Paradox Channel

Postby Cutty » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:36 pm

Thanks for the tape tip, RL. I'm going to try that. I tried those teflon baking sheets and they weren't sturdy enough.
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Re: 'Widder Paradox Channel

Postby kawika b. » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:12 am

:?: 3M PTFE Glass cloth tape,,, available at Home Depots? (I hope)
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