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What's it take to execute a "Good shot"?

A place to discuss shooting styles, form, aiming systems, experiences, etc...

Re: What's it take to execute a "Good shot"?

Postby njstykbow » Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:14 pm

Hill stated that the 2 styles didn't mix and to decide what you wanted to do.


Hank,

I know I'm not qualified to do so, but I'm going to disagree with Mr. Hill on this one. When we've been talking about form, it's been about consistency and repeatability. No one has suggested this type of form can only be practiced on a formal shooting line...standing straight up, bow fully vertical and a multi-color target in front. The ingraining of proper form carry over into hunting situations and actually induce proper alignment between the shoulders, upper body, bow, etc....especially when forced into "un-natural" shooting positions, as we often find ourselves in for hunting situations.

I can tell you from personal experience...my form is the same if I'm shooting off the shooting line, the treestand, off my knees on the ground, up or down hill, or turned and shooting behind me. That baseline of proper shooting form might not be readily observable on a "quicker than normal shot", but if you slowed a video of the shot down...you would see the basics of proper form utilized.

I have zero interest in shooting targets...be they 3D, Field, FITA...for score. My main purpose in shooting a bow is a constant state of preparation for hunting. Truth be known...VERY few shots are taken by any of us at moving...let alone running...game animals today. An extremely high percentage of the shots we take at game are at standing, unsuspecting animals. If I was going to attempt to feed my family on shooting pheasants in flight...I might have to rethink all the above...but I don't see that happening.

Joe
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Re: What's it take to execute a "Good shot"?

Postby TradArcher » Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:36 pm

OUTSTANDING response Joe. (I) Couldn't have done better. I've honestly and most earnestly tried to understand why there are archers out there that truly think a hunting archer is shooting a different shot than a target archer JUST because there's a difference in stance..or a stabilizer on the bow...or maybe a lighter draw bow. You've, most adequately, made (and clarified )the point as far as I'm concerned... Good Job. :D

Tom
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Re: What's it take to execute a "Good shot"?

Postby rwsbow » Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:17 pm

It still puzzles me as to why Mr. Hill would said that...especially considering that he won 196 consecutive archery tournaments..all the while compiling such an unimagineable record of animals harvested..

I wonder if maybe he saw that the target archery style (low under-the-chin anchor,locked left arm,rigid stance) prevalent at the time was not "fluid" enough and decided to make the statement that "that" type was not conducive to hunting...
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Re: What's it take to execute a "Good shot"?

Postby TradArcher » Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:33 pm

RWS, IMO there were likely a number of reasons for the comment. Certainly the equipment used in the late 20's, 30's ...and until Fred Bear and Ben Pearson started making significant improvements in equipment..not to mention Earl Hoyt. I have some VHS tape that was converted from old 8or maybe 16mm film taken of archers shooting longbows @ 100yds. Their anchors were not under their chins but rather on their chest! Surely, that position and type of target shooting is not conducive to say, a 20yds shot at a deer from a treestand....Hence, the comment.

But surely, as has been the theme of this entire thread, consistency....how to develop consistency for YOU as an individual, training tips/technique, etc etc are all about that. Lets just say that one archer shoots split fingers and another is able to shoot 3under. Is the split finger shooter more a hunter than the 3under archer??....certainly NOT. How 'bout if the archer anchors under his chin and is able to shoot (with his particular individual style) at hunting range..and beyond? Is HE less a hunter because of his anchor???....again, certainly NOT. OK, IF the guy who anchors under his chin now shoots from a sitting or kneeling position, is he now a hunter???.....why not?

My point is that each and every one of us have our individual "form" and there's absolutely not a thing wrong with being a bit different from archer to archer. Remember ONLY CONSISTENCY RULES! So what if our body position/grip/hook/anchor/head position/conclusion vary from archer to archer? It just doesn't matter. ANY archer with consistent form can do whatever he chooses...ie, target shoot, hunt, or whatever.

What I'd like to discuss (if there's interest) is the misconception that an archer who firmly anchors isn't capable of engaging a moving target...That it's necessary to be "fluid and continuous,never stopping at anchor" in order to engage a moving target.......THAT'S BUNK, PURE AND SIMPLE.

Tom
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Re: What's it take to execute a "Good shot"?

Postby Yohon » Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:39 pm

Excellent point Roger ;)

I said in a previous post about shooting with Stagmitis....his fluid hill style was something to watch AND he did it all consistently, albeit ALOT quicker than I can do it. I remember him talkin at length about proper grip, he hooked on the string the same way, got on target and appeared to keep it all together at least to let go....hes just alot smarter than me in the fact that his brain allows all that stuff to happen ALOT quicker than mine does. THAT is what I see as the primary differance in this whole friggin argument.....the guys that have the gift, and I do mean gift, to put all the consistency together in a quicker amount of time than the rest of us. ALL the shooters that I feel are pretty good ALL show consistency in all form parts...weather its done in one second or 5. Lenny told me something that helped me a bunch. Personalitys are different, we all have INDIVIDUAL acceptance levels as to what consitute speed in our shooting, neither is superior BUT it becomes inferior when the slow guys trys to be fast or the fast guy trys to slow down...honesty with yourself.

I agree Joe...good post too ;)
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Re: What's it take to execute a "Good shot"?

Postby superkodiak38 » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:26 pm

I just came up from a session in the basement on the "bail" and I absolutely agree that we are all different and our tempo will vary from archer to archer.
Yohon and CST can tell you that the way I used to shoot was in with a quick tempo, when it looked good and I didnt think it was gonna be any better it was gone. I have come to believe that the tempo of my shot had less to do with me short drawing than I thought, it was the not getting to anchor and then to conclusion that was killing me. My dropping the string became my conclusion and since I wasn't always dropping the string at the same time or place I could not achieve consistancy.

You know I had a bad day on the 3-D course today and didnt really want to go shoot at a bag target at 8 feet but I am glad I did, the Bail keeps giving me these "little revelations" and that drives me to want to shoot better. Thanks for shining the light on this fellers, it really helps.
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Re: What's it take to execute a "Good shot"?

Postby topcamp » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:36 pm

ok.......my shooting style is totally different than all of you.........yohon and joe can maybe vouch for that fact........i'm not going to even think about changing it ever again........i killed a lot of game with it........then i tried for over a year to shoot the style and form pretty much being discussed in this thread.........i couldn't function on a 3d course with it.......and when i bew a p&y shot last year early season trying to shoot like you real men......that was it ........but.......my style kicked ass today with two zeros even on the 3d course.......wouldn't have beaten yohon .....but i would have scared his panties in a wad..........i shot a 255 today with the two zeros.........my hunting style and target style are the same and it's the pony i'm gonna ride into the sunset......but i will keep reading this thread.........just so i can mess with all of you at lancastor........ :P :P :P
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on that day.......you wake up and never more what was .......will ever be again.
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Re: What's it take to execute a "Good shot"?

Postby superkodiak38 » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:40 pm

Top, your just evil aren't you ? :P 8-)
When you take your kid hunting and he says thank you and tells you how much he loves being in the woods with you, your day just isn't going to get any better than that.
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Re: What's it take to execute a "Good shot"?

Postby TradArcher » Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:31 pm

Top....One of two things are obvious...maybe both. The first is that, IF you did read this thread you've understood very little. Second, having not understood much of it, you simply want to disrupt it. In either or both cases it's too bad. If you honestly believe that any post in this thread was to get you to change your shooting...you're wrong....Improve your consistency....Absolutely. There's a BIG difference.

You're most welcome here to discuss(in earnest) improving your shooting. It seems that's not the case. Maybe you and Hank should start another thread and bust each others balls. :lol: :D

Tom
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Re: What's it take to execute a "Good shot"?

Postby topcamp » Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:49 pm

easy there tom........make sure your got your pony on the right trail buckarooooooo...........and with that last post your close to being put on drag for awhile.................
the more we know about the " how " and the " why " of..........the less we see and notice about the " now " of the " when "...
_tc...on the inflation of life

on that day.......you wake up and never more what was .......will ever be again.
_tc on growing old
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