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some bows fit, others don't

A place to discuss shooting styles, form, aiming systems, experiences, etc...

Re: some bows fit, others don't

Postby whump » Tue May 29, 2012 9:48 pm

Whump Sez; Well your description kinda points to the string follow causing a high brace height making the boo backed bow easier to shoot accurate. I really wasn't leaning toward speed being an issue, slower being more accurate than faster but that could enter in to it more or less depending on the shooter, but I mentioned it to see if their were some opinions on the issue. I appreciate you weighing in on the string follow issue Ben .
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Re: some bows fit, others don't

Postby Bender » Tue May 29, 2012 10:59 pm

Didn't really think about speed as being part of "fit." I mean I've shot bows that felt really nice that were dogs. And bows that felt really nice AND were fast. (Luv my Flatliner in that respect.)
But for me speed is certainly part of accuracy, and the faster the better. Honestly I don't get it when folks say they have better accuracy with a slower bow. Possibly something that some instictive shooters experience? With the slower arrow its easier to observe the trajectory? Then once learned its easier to visualize despite the greater arc? But it seems to me that even an instictive shooter would benefit from greater speed.
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Re: some bows fit, others don't

Postby BEN MAHER » Wed May 30, 2012 4:29 am

Bender your quite right and I probably didn't express myself well ... 8-)
I think you probably hit it on the head re "visualised flight / instinctive" etc ...

I am sure that through a chrony my string follows are slower than my reflexed and straight bows ... but honestly speed doesn't enter my equation either ... I can only judge it by which bows are more accurate for me and in my case its my string follow bows ...

Image

but the amatuer balistician in me suggests that the quicker bow , all design, build etc considered will be more accurate than the slower bows where range estimation plays less of a factor ... so i guess I am probably a tad spaz as I find the string follows more accurate, forgiving etc which will equal better accuracy ?

But as I said , I shoot them more than anything else so thats gotta come into the answer ? Shooting better a bow that I shot more ? ......

But maybe the best explanationI could offer to Whump's original 'string follow' query is that when i get a "flyer" from my d/r bows and 'curves they tend to be further out from what I am aiming at ,and occurring more often than the flyers from my Hills ......

rambling a bit so apols .........
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Re: some bows fit, others don't

Postby Bender » Wed May 30, 2012 7:24 am

There is a lot to accuracy.
A string follow bow, although slower than other designs throws fewer and less severe stray flyers.
If one had machine like form and never threw a flyer then speed would probably be a dominant factor in accuracy.
Aside from conscious, subconscious, unconscious, whatever, even the instinctive shooter must at least perceive the target. And that perception can be seriously screwed with. Open terrain without references, shooting from light into dark areas and vice versa, how severe the hangover is, etc etc all mess with the mind's perception of the target, even for the instinctive shooter.
As an unrepentant gap shooter, since I must have at least a vague idea of yardage, obviously speed will be most important to me. I guess I take forgiveness for granted. Because if a bow is an unfogiving bitch to shoot, then I just quit shooting it in real short order. Actually I think there are a lot of people who would benefit from that philosphy.
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Re: some bows fit, others don't

Postby BEN MAHER » Wed May 30, 2012 7:41 am

Apols , posted the wrong vid ! Can't seem to get back onto photobucket and find the proper one ..... widow vs Miller @ 25 yards

Unrepentant gap shooter huh ? You're so not 'trad' ... shame on you sir !!!

And yep ... open terrain is a bitch ... shot a 3D goat recently ... clear sunny day , clear paddock , shooting from shade and goat in the open ... for the life of me I couldn't work out how far away it was ...... :oops:

Curious , how long does it take you guys to say yeah or nay to a bow as a 'shooter ' ?
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Re: some bows fit, others don't

Postby whump » Wed May 30, 2012 12:51 pm

Whump Sez; As far as how long it takes to decide if a bow is a shooter it comes to light for me in about a dozen shots. I am however guilty of fighting a problem with a bow that throws flyers and I become determined to overcome the problem [ that is a mistake] the best thing to do is admit that the bow either has a problem or that it doesn't fit and put it down. You have just spent 600 on a bow so by God it is going to shoot down the middle and the bow is not the problem, and it may not be the bow ,but regardless ,after you throw a few hunting shots it gets frustrating. -----I've been guilty of that.

So Bender , Ben, Kodiak do you have an idea on radical limb design---do you think "that" in itself,, makes a bow harder to shoot consistently or does that have very little effect on the flyer situation. ?? Also on your SELFBOWS do you have some feeling from one to the other what made it a shooter--I keep going back to brace height having more or less of an effect on the flyer issue because in my opinion, it works a little like lock time on a rifle---the faster the lock time, the easier it is to shoot accurately and the faster an arrow gets away from a form issue the more consistent your shots will be.

Anybody on this forum--target shooter, bow builders, hunters, your opinions are welcome , A lot of this is hard to prove one way or the other since a huge part of archery is mental; but if you can find one common thing about a bow that makes it a forgiving hunter, shooter ,etc. then it is worth the discussion.
I have climbed and clawed from the pits of merciless persecution and suffered the tortures of the damned ,only to be thrust head first into what can be best described as organized confusion.
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Re: some bows fit, others don't

Postby BEN MAHER » Wed May 30, 2012 5:31 pm

whump wrote: So Bender , Ben, Kodiak do you have an idea on radical limb design---do you think "that" in itself,, makes a bow harder to shoot consistently or does that have very little effect on the flyer situation. ?? .


For longbows I'd say that my experience leads me to say yes ... but that is me and its hard to make a quantifiable answer because I know way to many guys who shoot rings around me with longbows that a squigglier than my D shape Hill style bows .....

Maybe If i shot that more R/d bows more I'd find it different ...

but then I wouldn't be shooting my trusty Hills so it'd be just like a betrayal ...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: some bows fit, others don't

Postby Bender » Wed May 30, 2012 6:13 pm

I always want to give a bow a fair chance so I take awhile to decide. Besides, problems could always be about its state of tune. But then again if a bow is proving to be a bitch to tune, perhaps thats a clue in and of itself? Anyway, I know within a day if a bow is going to work well for me. I get the "feel" during the tuning. And for me one thing that helps is mounting a sight, even if its a taped on matchstick. Leads to less questioning of myself and helps present more clear cut results in less time.
No, I don't think that "radical" limb design is the issue in a bow's shootability. After all what's a recurve? A R/D longbow taken to the extreme. Rather its the bowyer's execution of that radical design. Is the bow spec at 28" but the stupid thing stacks like a maniac at 26"? Is tiller seriously off? When its really bad, limb "timing" can be ruined so that one limb is actually slamming home before the other. That's just a couple of things.
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Re: some bows fit, others don't

Postby Bender » Wed May 30, 2012 9:35 pm

You know, in terms of "fit" there is one MAJOR item that we all have been overlooking. Draw Weight! Probably because we've been doing this for a day or two, and now take draw weight as a given. We're not going to buy a bow that is just too damned heavy. But you know if the draw weight is too high for you, the bow DOES NOT FIT, does it? Actually this should be #1 on the list. And you also know that if you can't make it to anchor and you're shaking like a dog shittin' peach pits, your accuracy is going to suck out loud.


Well.......Duh!
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Re: some bows fit, others don't

Postby whump » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:54 am

Whump Sez; well we did overlook the heavy draw weight problem but I was mainly thinking about bows that you already shoot and you are not over bowed. A bow that is too heavy has caused more problems for people than anything else in archery. I was pushing the questions more to people that shoot well and can distinguish between an easy to shoot bow and a bow that requires a lot of good form and thinking to shoot.
I would agree that a fast bow cuts way down on mulling and cyphering at different distances. I did start my trad career hunting with a bear Kodiak recurve so I can relate a little to form and follow thorough, recurve vs longbow but I guarantee I haven't shot as many different bows as some of the people on this forum , so I am interested in the hunt-ability of different style bows. I did own a longbow that was built on a somewhat flatbow design with string follow built in, but it was low poundage , a good bit lower than what I like to hunt with. It was easy to shoot and accurate but I didn't like the penetration issues since I shoot ---well you all know the story on that. I also had a wing recurve that shot well and was easy to shoot for a recurve but it was also low poundage---I bought those bows after I broke my back so I could start my rehab with light weight equipment, after they served the purpose, I sold them .
Good information on this thread and something to think about when you buy a bow.
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