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Pushing to conclusion

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Pushing to conclusion

Postby Jim Casto Jr » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:17 pm

Okay… since I’ve gotten some control over my shot, I’ve been experimenting with some things, hoping to become more consistent, and closing up those groups. I was out this weekend and decided I would take more control of my bow arm, so… I began pushing to the target then, going to conclusion. I quickly found I could use the push (while maintaining back tension) as a trigger to finish the shot. I also notice my groups tightened up considerably, with less flyers. I don’t know if it’s the “new” and different, or if I’ve inadvertently stumbled onto something, and I sure don't want to develop any bad habits.

I know that Rod Jenkins teaches continued pulling to conclusion, and I think Len Cardinale teaches once maintainable state is reached, there’s nothing more to do but “keep” and go to conclusion. Larry Skinner teaches to continue to engage the rhomboid while expanding the chest and Joel Turner teaches, “keep pulling, keep pulling, keep pulling…..

So…. is there a downside to pushing, then concluding the shot? Does anyone teach/advocate/stress pushing as opposed to pulling?
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Re: Pushing to conclusion

Postby BEN MAHER » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:50 pm

Thats a good question Jim ... I just know that for me "pushing" makes it easier for me , mentally to keep my bow arm solid and my shots are better .
And I still think it is acheiving the same thing as pulling isn't it ? Ie ... "for each action there is etc etc " ... but sometimes , I think my Back tension may suffer a bit from it so I'd be interested to know if others feel there is a difference
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Re: Pushing to conclusion

Postby Bender » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:22 pm

I would think it is a matter how exaggerated the "push" is. My mentor likened it to just reaching out to shake hands with the target.
Obviously some push is there the whole time, we're resisting the draw, right? But this is more than that. Its a feeling of reaching out to the target. I just want to touch the target if I could. I can't really say it alters my back tension. What it does do though is concentrate my intent and my focus, and goes with follow through, keeping that bow arm up, and unwavering and undropped.
When well done I can feel my chest expand as the compression of resisting the draw is released. (as opposed to a purposeful mental decision to actively expand the chest even further.) Its a feeling of "Aaaaahhhh!" of relief, the release is more than letting go of the string, the body feels a release of stress and tension.
As my mentor was a Pro Hoyt shooter back BC (Before Compound) to push to the target in some fashion is not new and different and is good stuff.
I just suggest keep it all rather relaxed and laid back, mellow kinda Zen. "I just want to shake your hand, all nice and polite. Before I kill you." Don't go for the "I'm going to rip this bow into 2 pieces." style of draw. That sort of shooting strength would be awesome of course, but that mindset can lead to being so agressive that you begin putting too much spurious input into the bow from too much unecessary activity and agitation.
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Re: Pushing to conclusion

Postby Jim Casto Jr » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:47 pm

Thanks Bender. So… this new and different to me, is actually old and commonplace, huh? That’s good news—I think. Do you consciously incorporate this “reach out and politely shake the hand of the target” in your shot sequence?
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Re: Pushing to conclusion

Postby Bender » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:10 pm

Jim Casto Jr wrote:Thanks Bender. So… this new and different to me, is actually old and commonplace, huh? That’s good news—I think. Do you consciously incorporate this “reach out and politely shake the hand of the target” in your shot sequence?


I don't know about it being "common place." Actually I suspect it isn't except among good top shooters who have had some REAL coaching and who show some degree of discipline. Olympians probably have familiarity with the concept regardless of how it was described and taught to them. Joe Blow the local Trad Guru probably not. He MAY have some idea of a "push" but few folks take it a step further and connect the push to the target.

It is still a conscious thought to me. Its not ingrained as of yet. Its there during target/sight picture acquisition. That's a very important segment of time. Another benefit I forgot to mention is that this also helps prevent being collapsed in the shot. You know that feeling, you're tired, you're slumped, you may technically be at anchor but your chest is kinda caved in, you're all just collapsed down into yourself. That can happen during target acqusition.
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Re: Pushing to conclusion

Postby Yohon » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:29 am

Lenny says there are only 3 ways to get thru your shot. Your either a puller, maintain in the front and pull with the back, an equalizer, someone who pushes AND pulls or your a pusher, maintains in the back and pushed to conclusion. Neither is superior over the other, just pick one that you like and can do the SAME each and every shot. Seems Mr Casto has found his ;)

I'll add a bit to Bender with another Lennyism. Think of a line traveling from the center of your target thru you elbow, your shot follows along that trail, on that line and your back tension is the how you travel along that trail, funnel however you want to think of it but maintain that line. Just another way to look at it in the same way that Bender was talking about lightly shaking the targets hand.
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Re: Pushing to conclusion

Postby Matt_Potter » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:02 am

Jim

If you get a chance read the Heretic Archer by Frangilli (yeah it is Oly but archery is archery and there is some good stuff in there) he uses pushing the site toward the target to get his clicker to fire and devotes 4 pages of the book talking about it. I played with it and found that it made my elevation inconsistent - I am pretty much a pure pull till you eyes cross kind of guy.

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Re: Pushing to conclusion

Postby marc » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:31 pm

Yohon wrote:Lenny says there are only 3 ways to get thru your shot. Your either a puller, maintain in the front and pull with the back, an equalizer, someone who pushes AND pulls or your a pusher, maintains in the back and pushed to conclusion. Neither is superior over the other, just pick one that you like and can do the SAME each and every shot. Seems Mr Casto has found his ;)


Rod talked about that in a video too, can't remember which one now though. Skinner talks about pushing the bow to make the clicker go off too.

I think I shoot best when I am pushing and pulling evenly, right now I have to think about it to do it well though.
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Re: Pushing to conclusion

Postby Bender » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:19 pm

Yeah, you got it Yohon. You want to be connected to that target. "OOOOOMMMMMMM be the target OOOOOOMMMM be the arrow OOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM all is one OOOOOOOOMMMMMM" Mystical claptrap, but sometimes I just don't know how to really describe it.
As for pushing so much that it gets a clicker to go off, boy I don't know 'bout that! Yeah, it works for the guy, but that seems that it would screw with how steady your bow hand and arm are. Critical that they be stable parts of the "launch platform." Matt's comment seems to back that.
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Re: Pushing to conclusion

Postby marc » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:17 pm

Maybe pushing is the wrong term! More like actively resisting collapsing the bow arm is a better description.
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