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Bare Shaft Tuning Questions

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Bare Shaft Tuning Questions

Postby bearauto11 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:13 pm

I am going to try to bare shaft tune some wood arrows that I made to go along with a bow for someone else (just to get close so I feel they will be able to get a good start).
I understand the basics of this tuning method, but I have a couple of questions.

I can't get a clear understanding of how far away from the target I should be standing. I'm thinking about 10 yards. Would this be alright?

Everything I read about it discusses nock right, left, etc. or group placement left, right, etc. My target is stuffed with plastic sacks and the arrows don't necessarily stay stuck in the same direction they were shot (The nock end tends to kick a little one way or another). So... If I shoot fletched shafts and get a group then shoot bare shafts and get a group, can I just use the placement of the groups to indicate what is needed to tune up. As an example, if I shoot bare shafts and they group left of fletched shafts, can I count on that indicating a stiff shaft even if the nock ends are kicked the other way (due to the makeup of the target)?

Thanks,
--Tom
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Re: Bare Shaft Tuning Questions

Postby rwsbow » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:10 pm

I've never bareshafted wood, but for ALUMINUM.. it works best to start at about 10-12 yards and watch how the arrow shaft "planes" to the left or right..it is hard to make a determination when the target itself will not allow you to make the correct determination because of its consistency..

if the nock kicks left, too weak spine...if the nock kicks right, too stiff spined..nock point the same..nock high, lower nocking point...nock low, raise nocking point.When you get these points done, then you can try the fletched vs. unfletched so see how the grouping is..they should be close at this point...at this point move back to 20 yards and watch the bareshaft flight...

Like I said, I have never bareshafted woodies, so there may be other things to consider..maybe a good "woodie" expert will have more precise information...
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Re: Bare Shaft Tuning Questions

Postby Bender » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:24 pm

Yeah, that 10 yards is good like you and rws said. Heck if you're really worried, you could even stand at 5 yards. Not to necessarily extract data for tuning, but to just make sure that you'll at least hit the target to start, then go back to 10 yds.
The finer you can tune and the further back you can keep moving the better. See if you can get to 20 like rws said. I like to get back to 30 or even 40 if I can. Never made it to 50 like Hornseeker. My yard just isn't that big. However since you're making these up for somebody else, I'm not sure that there is any need to go past 10 or 20. You can't really fine tune arrows for somebody else.
Have you seen this info? http://www.bowmaker.net/index2.htm
Its good stuff, but it seems to suggest that nock orientation doesn't matter, just the grouping. I tend to disagree with that. When you're getting down to the nitty gritty, you not only want bare and fletched grouped together, its good to see that the bare are all hitting the target the same way, preferably straight on. HOWEVER, you've got a few things going on here. You're setting up for somebody else, so again why sweat fine tuning. Also with wood, no matter how tightly they were spine matched, that is a static test. Wood is just too variable and you're just about guaranteed that even with a nice homogenous target, and really well made quality woodies, you'll still see different nock orientations. Some right on, some a little stiff, some a little weak. And finally this last factor requires honest self assessment. Can you shoot that well? Differences in form from one shot to the next will show up as the bare shaft entering the target in different orientations.
So, is that enough rambling? Given what you're trying to accomplish, the nature of your target material, and the fact that you're working with woodies, just get the bare and fletched to group together at 10 or 20 yards, then ship it!
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Re: Bare Shaft Tuning Questions

Postby bearauto11 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:25 pm

Thanks guys. That was great. I don't think I could have asked for better answers to my questions.
Bender, I have seen that tuning info before, but I never read it real well. It's printed now and I'm gonna read it all the way through.
Thanks again,
--Tom
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Re: Bare Shaft Tuning Questions

Postby trapperDave » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:07 am

i ignore nock orientation (i use a bag target). start at ten then walk em back as far as you can shoot. seems to me it takes about twenty yards to really start seeing the effects. At ten, the arrow hasnt had enough time to stray from straight IMO
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Re: Bare Shaft Tuning Questions

Postby BK in TEXAS » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:52 am

I don't really look at nock orientation in the target either. I shoot at 20 yards and watch what the arrow is doing in flight. I honestly don't completely understand why, but underspined and overspined both kick nock left in the air. The right spine flies like a dart the whole way.
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Re: Bare Shaft Tuning Questions

Postby AROMAKR » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:35 pm

Tom:
Why not just select the correct spine shafts to begin with and forget about bareshaft tuning? Bareshaft tuning came about when manufactures of non-wood shafts began making fewer and fewer shaft sizes. Wood shafts are available in any spine you need. its not difficult too do. And bareshafting usually results in an arrow that is slightly overspined.
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Re: Bare Shaft Tuning Questions

Postby Bender » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:01 pm

AROMAKR, when did shaft manufacturers start making fewer shaft sizes? I know that OL Adcock's bare shaft protocol is at least 10 years old, if not older. There are now more carbon sizes available than there were 10 years ago. Easton did reduce the selection in their "cheap" aluminum shafts, but all the same sizes are still there in the carbon, carbon/aluminum composite, and mid to premium grade aluminum shafts.
Are you suggesting to just pick a shaft size that is theoretically correct and just skip tuning? If so then, regardless of what you're shooting, wood or synthetic, how does one settle on the correct shaft length and point weight?
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Re: Bare Shaft Tuning Questions

Postby bearauto11 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:41 pm

Thanks guys for the information again. I was trying to settle on a point and shaft length combination for the bow and arrows I made for my dad. He probably won't do a whole bunch of tuning, so I wanted them to fly pretty good for him out of the box.
I started at 29" and 125 grains and the bare flew about 6-8" right of the fletched group. I cut the shafts to 28" and put 100 grain points on and this is what I got from around 12-13 yards.

Image

When I went out to 20 yards they were showing weak again, but the fletched shafts flew pretty good. I'm calling it good. He wanted his arrows 28" long and it looks like I might have bought slightly underspined shafts. But, I'm trying to replicate his shorter draw length and who knows what sort of different styles he has than me.

Thanks again,
--Tom
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