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Mechanical vs Feel

A place to discuss shooting styles, form, aiming systems, experiences, etc...

Mechanical vs Feel

Postby rwsbow » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:17 am

There has been a lot of discussion on eliminating shooting problems lately and was curious to what other people do to avoid slumps or get out of one...Nope, I am blissfully content wit my shooting right now..both with split finger sights/stab out to 50 yards and with 3 under barebow out to 20 yards,.,.

I commend Jim Casto for working so diligently on the bale and the bridge, and wish him the best of luck to overcome his hurdles to get his shooting where HE wants it...comfortable and consistent...

There are a lot of us who do NOT work the "Bale".. I have nothing against it if it works for you..but the only time I shoot at a "Bale" is when something in my form does not "feel right".."Blind Bale training"...I go through my whole shot sequence as normal, but just before I reach full draw, I close my eyes to get the "FEEL" of how everything should feel when correctly executed and evaluate how everything feels..bow grip, bow arm,anchor,drawing elbow position,finger pressure, etc..I then dump the string...I really don't care where the arrow goes because I am close (3 to 4 yards) and all I am trying to acknowledge is the correct "feel" of the shot...to me, aiming is a separate entity to the mechanics of the shot...

Just curious as to what others do to reinforce good habits and eliminate destructive ones....
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Re: Mechanical vs Feel

Postby JackDaw » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:14 am

First thing I do when I go into a slump (like I'm doing right now :cry: )
is start shooting closer, do some blind bale shooting too, get it back
to the basics real fast, and tell myself I'll come out of it like I have before.

I kinda mentally laugh the whole thing off, so those fucking gremlins
don't take up residence in my brain pan, sorta tell 'em to go piss off,
they ain't gonna get the best of me. A nice cold mug of aiming
fluid comes in handy too :mrgreen:
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Re: Mechanical vs Feel

Postby njstykbow » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:19 am

I go through my whole shot sequence as normal, but just before I reach full draw, I close my eyes to get the "FEEL" of how everything should feel when correctly executed and evaluate how everything feels..bow grip, bow arm,anchor,drawing elbow position,finger pressure, etc..I then dump the string


Roger,

That's the way I was taught and always did it until the past couple years after working with Len Cardinale. I think the old way is the easiest way to get the "feel" of your shot. For some...the problems creep in when they open their eyes and actually start looking at things. The blank bale is a method of ingraining a proper shot with the eyes open so the transistion to a target isn't such a huge leap.

For someone who has your experience in technical shooting...it's an easier transition for you. For someone learning or trying to get through a severe bought of TP...The eyes open method is critical. I would add...I think there is a benefit of a guy like Jim using the eyes closed method for his first session or two of blank/blind bale work because sometime it's tough to know what the "perfect shot" feels like because it's been so long since the brain has experienced it. A few eyes closed shots and a transition to blank bale could be appropriate based on what the individual shooter is trying to get through at the time.

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Re: Mechanical vs Feel

Postby superkodiak38 » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:50 pm

I have done both and I agree with Roger that closing my eyes does heighten my other senses and I can feel the shot it also completely takes aiming out of the picture which is something I have a hard time doing even up close + or - 3 feet, on the bale. My mind always wants to focus on something. I have found that for me shooting at about 15 - 20 feet lets me stay relaxed, work on form, not worry about a miss but gives me another measure of feed back and gain in confidence. I'm not suggesting it will work for anyone else I know it works for me.
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Re: Mechanical vs Feel

Postby Hornseeker » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:44 pm

I do what you do Roger, but I do leave my eyes open. Did it with my eyes shut...and just didn't feel it was necessary... I dont "look" at anything... just happen to have my eyes open I guess.

I haven't had a "bad slump"... knock on wood dam it... most of my slumps are corrected real quickly cause I recognize immediately what Im doing... I guess I'm fortunate that way...
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Re: Mechanical vs Feel

Postby Bender » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:43 pm

I seem to use the bail as rws does. With eyes closed though to start when I need to seriously reestablish contact with what a good shot feels like. Maybe I'll be examining some particular element such as grip or back tension, or whatever.
I too thankfully have yet to experience a truly bad "slump". I just have days where my shooting is seriously bad. Sometimes it will continue for a while until I figure out what it is that I have let slip. I just think its important to not freak out and dignify the problem by making it more than what it is. Sure it is easy for me to say these things because I have never been seriously screwed by TP or a slump, or whatever. I just happen to think that it is better to suck it up, dump the ego, and admit, "Man I sucked!" If I can accept that, then I am in a position to handle it and get it right.
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Re: Mechanical vs Feel

Postby Allen » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:19 am

rwsbow wrote:...to me, aiming is a separate entity to the mechanics of the shot...


I totally agree with that statement. If more archers understood this, I think that there would be a lot fewer target panic threads.

On "feel" versus "mechanics" - One of Len Cardinale's rules is that "under stress, the feeling leaves". The stress could be competition or a shot at an animal. But when our bodies react to a stress condition, we tend to loose the feeling of the shot that we built up on the practice range.

Usually the best way to overcome this is to know your shot. Know exactly every part & piece of your shot. You can do this on a target, but it's a lot easier to do it on a bale. This obviously works for a slump too. If you know your shot cold, you know when something is not right.

Obviously, there are plenty of archers that don't use the bale and shoot very well. But for the less talented, like me, the bale is a faster and easier way to do it.
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Re: Mechanical vs Feel

Postby Yohon » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:28 am

Allen wrote:
Obviously, there are plenty of archers that don't use the bale and shoot very well. But for the less talented, like me, the bale is a faster and easier way to do it.


I belong to that less talented group :lol: Well said Allen!!
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Re: Mechanical vs Feel

Postby Fuzzy Dog » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:06 pm

For what it's worth, I had a lesson with Len Cardinale today, and because of this thread asked him about closing your eyes while working on the bale. He was adamantly opposed to it. His view is that you should assemble your shot to a maintainable state and then have "no changes" to conclusion; closing your eyes is a "change" in his view, and one that you won't do once you leave the bale. He also says that under stress, your feel for the shot will leave you, but the shot you've assembled and learned to trust on the bale won't because you've set it up that way so often that it's ingrained. Or at least that's what I understood.
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