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Single Form Idea for WTT5

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Single Form Idea for WTT5

Postby BK in TEXAS » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:56 am

I'm copying a few posts from an unrelated thread so this idea can get kicked around a little and not get lost.....

Kirkll wrote:......you know what would really be fun for a competition thing at WTT , is everyone use the same exact form and see who can tweak it into shape for performance, draw smoothness, and hand shock the best. all the lengths would have to be the same, and the poundage within 5 pounds of each other......

jwillis wrote:.....maybe we can do this before WWT5 and have an entire year to get it done. That would be fun......

BK in Wisconsin wrote:If it was a T/D limb form it could be mailed to each bowyer fairly reasonably too :? :? :? :?

I'm in.
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Re: Single Form Idea for WTT5

Postby BK in TEXAS » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:01 am

A T/D limb form would also give each bowyer the latitude to choose their pad angle, riser length, and limb length. Could be pretty interesting.
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Re: Single Form Idea for WTT5

Postby Crooked Stic » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:06 am

Here is athought. We could maybe go with a tried design lke the Bingham Pronounced reflex TD longbow limb. That way no one has a advantage by maybe throwing thier own design out for us to use.
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Re: Single Form Idea for WTT5

Postby jwillis » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:23 pm

If everyone uses a straight side-view back profile that would completely level the field. Anyone and everyone has access to the same profile this way and there is no bow form to ship around. All we need to limit are the bow dimensions and materials.

How about this?...

OVERVIEW:
It is assumed that all bows will be composite, laminated, "traditional, flat bows or long bows" with a single string and with a straight back profile--not "hybrids", "recurves", "compounds" having wheels or cams, or "horse bows" with attached levers or siyahs. Like the other WTT bow testing, there will be four categories of bows, depending upon the materials used: 1) "All wood/primitive", 2) "Fiberglass-skinned", 3) "Carbon fiber-skinned", and 4) "OPEN". In the "OPEN" category ANY MATERIAL goes.

PARAMETERS:
1. A bow will have a straight back profile from tip-to-tip on the outermost backing surface (glued up on a straight form without reflex or deflex).
2. A bow will have a maximum overall length of 72" from tip-to-tip.
3. Overlays may be stacked up and added anywhere on the bow (handle, tips, limbs, back, belly, sides, ends) to tune stiffness or affect appearance, but may not extend more than 1/4" from the outermost back or belly surface or exceed the overall length limit. This is to limit the addition of horns or siyahs which might create a leverage advantage.
4. A bow may NOT be bent or shaped to add reflex or deflex, or have reflex or deflex added or induced to the bow in excess of 1" from the outermost primary backing surface. Reflex will be measured from the deepest point of the outermost back surface of the bow at the handle or limb to the string nock at the outermost back surface at the tip, and deflex will be measured from the deepest point of the outermost back surface of the limb to the deepest point of the outermost back surface of the handle.
5. Wood, plant, or animal materials may be used in the "All wood/primitive" category. This category will include wood, fiber, cordage, sinew, horn, antler, or stone materials, but not natural glass, metals, or synthetic materials.
6. Fiberglass-reinforced materials may be used in the "Fiberglass-skinned" category. This category will include all fiberglass reinforced cords, tape, or fiberglass-reinforced plastic (FRP) materials, but not carbon fiber materials.
7. Carbon fiber-reinforced materials may be used in the "Carbon fiber-skinned" category. This category will include all carbon fiber reinforced cords, tape, or carbon fiber-reinforced plastic (CRP) backing or core materials, but not metals, ceramics or other synthetics materials.
8. Wood, plant, animal, natural, glass, stone, ceramics, plastics, metals and any synthetic materials may be used in the "Open" category.
9. There are no limitations for bow width or thickness.

TESTING PROCEDURES:
(same as other WTT bows unless we vote to make changes)
1. All bows will be tested using an unfletched arrow that is 10 gpp +/- 2gr. An arrow will be provided for each bow.
2. Bows will be drawn using the AMO standard...measured 26-1/4" from the deepest part of the grip to the string.
3. Strings will be provided for all bows and require a minimum of 6-3/4" brace height on all bows.
4. All bows and arrows will be measured using the same scales prior to the competition. PLEASE keep bows under 60# if possible.
5. All bows will be shot on a stationary shooting machine with a release aid for a five shot average.
6. Unstrung, braced, and full-draw photos will be taken of each bow. These will be posted in a results thread a piratesofarchery.net.
7. A force-draw curve of each bow will plotted. Wood bows and bows made with natural materials will only be weighed at brace height and full-draw. They will not be held at each inch or pulled beyond 28". These will be posted in a results thread a piratesofarchery.net.
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Re: Single Form Idea for WTT5

Postby BK in TEXAS » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:50 pm

My only hesitation with a straight bow is that it's been around a while and a lot of guys have already been messing around with it. It would give them an unfair advantage. Plus, how much over 180 are we really going to get out of one?

With a takedown R/D longbow I bet we'll see a wide variety of design & ingenuity.....all using the same limb profile :) Speeds in the 190's ????

What if you and/or I just create the curve of the TD limb and send a printout out to everyone interested. Then we can all make our own forms.
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Re: Single Form Idea for WTT5

Postby Bob L. » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:56 pm

That sounds cool
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Re: Single Form Idea for WTT5

Postby jwillis » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:20 pm

BK, sure that would work, too. I am just thinking that a straight profile would simplify the process to the point that we builders are only modifying the width, length, width profile, and the thickness buildup...and optimizing the moving mass to the draw weight, which is a factor we don't discuss enough around here. ;) Maybe we could do it as a "straight bow challenge" the first year, then do it as a "r/d challenge" with the given side profile you are suggesting the second year? This is pretty exciting to think and plan because, like Badger suggested more than once, we may be seeing a ceiling for hybrid performance and will probably soon begin reaching a ceiling for recurve performance. Jim
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Re: Single Form Idea for WTT5

Postby angelstaff » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:21 am

BK in Wisconsin wrote:My only hesitation with a straight bow is that it's been around a while and a lot of guys have already been messing around with it. It would give them an unfair advantage. Plus, how much over 180 are we really going to get out of one?

With a takedown R/D longbow I bet we'll see a wide variety of design & ingenuity.....all using the same limb profile :) Speeds in the 190's ????

What if you and/or I just create the curve of the TD limb and send a printout out to everyone interested. Then we can all make our own forms.

European pirates, how they could participate in this event, "we may receive hard copy of the forms
How I wish to participate in person. Of truth that will envy you
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Re: Single Form Idea for WTT5

Postby BK in TEXAS » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:32 am

angelstaff wrote:European pirates, how they could participate in this event, "we may receive hard copy of the forms

Yes, I can mail you a printout.
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Re: Single Form Idea for WTT5

Postby Crooked Stic » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:03 pm

I like Bobbys idea.
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